Playback speed
×
Share post
Share post at current time
0:00
/
0:00
Transcript

191 - Holding the Line on Liberal Values, with Helen Pluckrose and Carrie Clark

Balancing evidence and empathy.

Sasha and Stella welcome writers Carrie Clark and Helen Pluckrose to the show for thoughtful and provocative dialogue, critically examining the intersections of identity, sex-based rights, mental health, and societal influences. Drawing from both personal experiences and professional insights, they explore complex and sensitive ideas around self-expression, feminism, and gender, encouraging a nuanced and reflective perspective. The conversation also delves into the controversy following Genspect’s 2023 Bigger Picture Conference in Denver, known as "Blue Dress Gate," unpacking the cultural and social tensions surrounding the event.

Carrie Clark and Helen Pluckrose are influential writers and thinkers, both committed to defending freedom of speech and opposing ideological capture in key institutions. Carrie, a UK-based researcher, delves into viewpoint diversity and classical liberalism, particularly in the context of gender issues. Helen, a political writer and commentator, critiques postmodern thought and its role in fueling activism that undermines evidence-based inquiry. Together, they co-founded Counterweight in 2020, an organization dedicated to supporting individuals navigating workplace and institutional culture wars, and they both now also contribute their expertise to Genspect.

This episode takes a reflective and analytical tone, fostering intellectual curiosity while maintaining empathy for individuals navigating identity issues as well as supporters of a gender-critical perspective. In addition to the five foundational principles guiding Genspect’s approach to gender, they explore the complexities of over-medicalization, particularly among youth, and the lack of informed consent in mental health treatment. The discussion highlights the challenges young people encounter when pressured to adopt mental health diagnoses or labels, which can sometimes hinder personal growth and shift their focus toward future 'transition' goals at the expense of present experiences.

The conversation considers how society’s valorization of marginalized identities, including mental illness and gender identities, may inadvertently restrict young people by prompting them to define themselves through these labels. This highlights the complex tension between the value of destigmatizing labels and the importance of avoiding the pathologization of typical experiences, but all while ensuring that genuine mental health needs are not obscured.

It’s a conversation that savors nuance over simplicity, aiming to spark deeper contemplation and broaden listeners' understanding of how cultural forces shape individual identity and mental health, especially among young people.

Resources & Links

@cwestonclark and @HPluckrose on X

The Overflowings of a Liberal Brain (Helen’s Substack)

on Substack

Gender Critical Feminists, Please Hold the Line

The Counterweight Handbook

12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos (Jordan B. Peterson)


Check out Helen & Carrie’s recommendations:

The Certainty Trap: Why We Need to Question Ourselves More―and How We Can Judge Others Less (Ilana Redstone)

Some of Our Parts (Laura Kennedy)

Gender Dysphoria: A Therapeutic Model for Working with Children, Adolescents and Young Adults (Marcus & Susan Evans)


Engage & Get Connected

Order Our Book

Support the Show 

Thank You to Our Sponsors

Genspect

Therapy First

Gender: A Wider Lens
Gender: A Wider Lens
In this podcast, now in its fourth year, therapists Stella O'Malley and Sasha Ayad take a deep dive into the psychological and cultural forces impacting the social changes around "gender." Through interviews with researchers, doctors, therapists, parents, detransitioners, and others, Sasha and Stella's podcast is a "must listen" for anyone trying to navigate the current gender landscape. With their sharp analytical minds and deep compassionate hearts, Stella and Sasha have also become known throughout many parent networks as lighthouses in the midst of some very stormy seas. Previous guests include Helen Joyce, Jesse Singal, Leor Sapir, Kathleen Stock, Jamie Reed, Peter Boghossian and more.