In this episode, Sasha and Stella welcome Malcolm Clark for a really interesting conversation exploring various facets of historical ideas and identities around gender, homosexuality, and the evolution of identity activism.
Malcolm Clark is an RTS and Emmy nominated executive producer. He worked as a producer for BBC's flagship science series called Horizon before becoming the head of science at Mentorn Television. He's also a leader within the LGB Alliance, which was started by Kate Harris and Bev Jackson, who invited Malcolm in the early days to join their leadership team. He's a brilliant writer on Substack and X (Twitter), and he explores the irrational notion of gender identity and anything else that catches his eye with a particular emphasis on the little-known shocking history of gender concepts and gender medicine.
This discussion navigates the intricate and contentious terrain of understanding gender non-conformity and identity expression across history. It also explores differing perspectives on rationality and irrationality regarding body modification and treatment options for distress, reflecting on the historical context of medical interventions and their evolution. The conversation highlights how these practices have been misrepresented or exposed for harmful outcomes, and how they continue to evolve amidst activism rather than scientific grounding.
Sasha and Stella reference previous Gender: A Wider Lens guest, Bob Ostertag's, book "Science Sex Self," which discusses the history of hormones. They highlight the importance of understanding the history of where hormones came from, how they were marketed, and how they were developed, underscoring the significance of historical context in comprehending the evolution of medical interventions and treatments.
“Sex offenders (given puberty blockers) actually complained that the puberty blockers were too strong. So these are adult sex offenders who found the side effects of puberty blockers, something they would rather not go through. Teenagers now getting them is just absurd.”
Malcolm discusses so much about how the history of the trans movement has been distorted, sharing a specific example in reference to claims about the targeting of trans people during Nazi Germany. This conversation is one that emphasizes the need to critically examine historical narratives and challenges assertions made in the name of activism.
Resources & Links
@TwisterFilm on X(Twitter)
The Secret Gender Files on Substack
The Midas Formula, from the BBC Horizon series
Parallel Universes, from the BBC Horizon series
The Hawking Paradox, from the BBC Horizon series
Healthy Limbs Cut Off at Patients' Request NHS trust puts stop to surgeon's amputations done as last resort on disturbed patients with 'life threatening' hate of their own bodies, by Gerard Seenan
The Project Gutenberg eBook of A Modest Proposal, by Jonathan Swift
All roads lead to WPATH How the strange, dark history of the gender movement built our strange, dark modern world, by Malcolm Clark
@_CryMiaRiver X(Twitter) thread about apotemnophilia
I was euphoric post sex reassignment similar to being reborn. Unfortunately my emotional insecurities which I thought had dissipated returned with vengeance. I fear my gender transition experience is not unique but likely the norm. There needs to be strong pushback against the deception of queer theory, body autonomy and the elimination of "gatekeeping." Clinical psychiatric & medical evaluation is an absolute necessity for the protection of the individual and society. There was once a requirement to do a "true or real life" test prior to hormones and surgery. A person had to be full time cross living (total identity change,work, school,socially etc. ) for a period ranging from 1 to 2 years. Eliminating "gatekeeping" and adherence to queer theory,gender affirming care, body autonomy etc. is deceptive,dangerous, and destructive.
Back in 2002 when I took my first abnormal psychology class my professor wanted us to take note of how rational someone suffering from mental illness can sound. She showed a video of a man with paranoid schizophrenia talking about how President George H. Bush wanted to kill him and he did sound so lucid and rational that it was disarming.
I also remember people talking about how Nadya Suleman (more commonly known as the Octomom) sounded lucid and rational until you really thought about what she was saying in the context of the reality of the fact that she'd just given birth to octuplets and already had six young children.
And I suspect that one unfortunate side effect of the internet is that is had given people who are delusional a platform, and combine with turning so much of this into a Civil Rights movement that you can't question has had horrific consequences. I think things are now getting so obviously insane (with the otherkin, people who say they are the reincarnation of fictional characters or are not human or whatever) and people are getting tired of the consequences of catering to them that the tide is slowly starting to turn, but it is really a bizzarro land in some places of the internet right now.
I do think we need more awareness of how someone who is mentally ill can sound rational so we can approach claims on the internet with caution. One person's lived experience is one person's lived experience and some people are more credible than others regardless of skin color, sex, religion and sexual orientation and this elevating of lived experience as some sort of gold tier evidence has been disastrous.
This episode was absolutely fascinating and I look forward to the bonus content!
Great wide-ranging conversation, so wonderful to hear from Malcolm Clark! Near the end of the public interview, Malcolm states that while scientists have been looking for a gene for trans or some different of the brain that explains cross-sex identification, nonetheless he would not be surprised if a gene or brain difference were to be discovered. As someone who studied evolutionary biology in college I have to say that I would be very surprised indeed. Any gene or set of genes that predispose an individual to cross-sex identification would surely also impact their "reproductive success" unless the expression of that gene/set of genes is delayed until after the individual has already had ample time to reproduce. In that case the affected individual would be unaware of their cross-sex "gender identity" until well into adulthood. This in turn would suggest that gender identity cannot emerge in children.
The most important difference between transgenderism, body integrity disorder and homosexuality is surely that demands for autonomy in the former case require medical and surgical interventions which cost money and lifelong medical input (and there are many arguments about how that should be funded) and require the involvement and resources of other people. I believe autonomy is limited to the normal function and form of the body.
In Canada recently a young man (20?) in Quebec had two fingers amputated to relieve his “body integrity dysphoria”. I wonder if this will be a growing phenomenon due to the prevalence of internet porn.
Malcolm is great, I'd like to pick his brain about a half-dozen points here.
There is YouTuber named Cass Eris, who has phd in cognitive psychology and is a lecturer in a university. She made series of videos debunking Abigail Shier’s „Irreversible Damage”, of which I watched few episodes, and the whole thing made me believe that gender criticals are full of junk science and trans rights movement is science based. Anyway, she said in one video that amputation is viable treatment for body identity disorder and - I should check this if I remember correctly, but can’t find that moment now - the only working treatment for that condition. So, according to Cass Eris, if anything, comparision between transgenderism and body identity disorder only proves that transition is necessary.
It stuck in my mind for years and actually convinced me that chopping off healthy limbs is fine.