OK, redundant from my comment on the main part of the episode, but oh my goodness, Maia, you are so absolutely brilliant. Everything you said here is so illuminating. And I 100% echo what you say about this very podcast and how important it has been to so many in understanding this mass psychogenic illness, medical scandal, or whatever various true things we can call it.
Maia's comments on religion were interesting for me. I was raised atheist and without religion. My mother and sister have both struggled mightily with mental health and spent most of their lives medicated, and I think social media has been horrible for my family of origin and that I'm the only one with an awareness of how it has devastated our family. I've seen my family go from Rational Empiricists to Woke fundamentalists and that it's exacerbated OCD tendencies in my family. The hard thing is that growing up I got a lot of messages that it was impossible to live a healthy, good life as an atheist and that motivated me to show that it could be done, but I look at what happened to the rest of my family and it's caused me to re-evaluate needs people have for religion in their life and wonder if people were right about atheism being challenging for mental health.
I have had a surprisingly successful marriage with a practicing Catholic. Our religious differences have been hard to navigate and nearly destroyed our marriage at times but right now we are in a state of deep appreciation for each other's differences. One thing we argued about was whether to force the kids to be Catholics. I always believe that doing the sacraments and going to Mass should be their choice, not forced and that they should have the opportunity to explore other belief systems. My husband felt that if it wasn't forced they wouldn't do it.
This extremism and my way or the highway route he and my in-laws took to religion nearly destroyed our marriage, and to his credit my husband realized this and stepped back to make amends. He didn't insist on bringing the kids to Mass with him or them having Communion. And to his surprise my tween has started to ask to go to Mass with him. She's also started to struggle with a lot of fears about what will happen when she dies and whether or not she will die in her sleep which, after listening to this podcast, I feel are appropriate for her age (I never experienced this and have come to the conclusion that I am unnaturally comfortable with the fact that one day I will die). My husband has started using prayer to help her cope with this and she has started to ask to pray with him and is developing a sense of spirituality and we are looking into getting her in classes for her First Communion, a bit late, but this is motivated by her and something she wants for her and not something we are forcing her into. I'm shocked that I am at a point where I am now so terrified of the prospect of my autistic children going down the gender ideology rabbit hole that I'm encouraging them to embrace their father's Catholic faith and cheerleading it even though I have no intention of converting myself. My husband is shocked that the kids are initiating this and it is so meaningful to him that this is driven by them and not something he is imposing on them.
Basically I've come to the conclusion that extremism is a problem in all beliefs systems, but if my kids become devout Catholics they aren't going to cut off body parts so I'll take the risk of them becoming devout Catholics. With extremism such a problem in our society though, I think the thing that we are really trying to impress on my kids is that religion is something that they do because it helps them cope with how hard life is, and that different people find different ways to cope with how hard life is, and that Catholicism may be right for you, but Judaism or Islam or some secular philosophy may be right for someone else. But then there are the risks that some beliefs systems are healthier than others and they can also become cultish, and that you can practice Catholicism in a way that is healthy and respectful of others or do it in a way that is destructive and so on with any belief system.
I'll say that gender ideology has a way of making you examine everything you thought you knew in a new light and leads you to the strangest places. My husband sees that my concerns and criticisms about organized religion are valid but I also see the benefits that having a religious belief system brings and we're trying to navigate a path where they get the benefits of religion while minimizing the bad and hope it's enough to. And it has also struck me that conservatives actually have good reasons for their approach to life but terrible arguments beyond "this is the way things are done." I think it's so intuitive to them that they can't articulate it and gender ideology is showing us painfully what happens when we devalue rituals and family and religion and has given me better arguments for conservative positions (and I'm liberal). Meanwhile I think liberals have valid critiques about where humans in groups go wrong but have been throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and I think both sides need to see that the other has good points and figure out how to have the benefits of conservatism without the abuses. Because of this, I find insights like Maia's fascinating and needed as we navigate our way through a strange new world.
Thank you. That was very thoughtful. I am also exploring the religious side of this. I think that traditional religious frameworks can be very helpful in grounding us, particularly children. Tried and tested religious frameworks tend to be less dangerous than new cults or ideological movements, which have a tendency to burn themselves out when they destroy lives, although in some case only after causing huge harm. To me the main test for whether a belief system is dangerous is whether those who adhere to it understand that they have a faith, and that others may reasonably not share this faith, because faith is something you cannot gain by rational argument - it is something you are raised with, or sometimes choose, or sometimes a gift (as with born-again Christians). The danger comes when people take faith beliefs and demand that others agree or be branded as infidels or heretics (for saying that sex is real, for example). Most religions have become dangerous at one time or another, particularly when religion gets mixed up with political power. That is why the gender ideologues are so dangerous - because they have power over others. And they do not recognise that their beliefs are held as a matter of faith.
Maia’s insights are so important and we need to incorporate them into our quest to understand this phenomenon among the kids and the scandal being perpetrated by the professionals and society!! So eye opening in this segment. I can see Stella’s mind exploding with intrigue. 😂. I am so impressed, Maia.
Isn't that bit about the Tel Aviv mall fascinating? That micro-geography of gender identity would be comletely invisible to me if I had not talked to Maia. She is a wellspring of insight.
The epicenter of youth culture is a mall in Tel Aviv, a very unique place on the map. Within it there are many places for many different affinity groups -- a social geography. All that talk about "navigating the world" infers a geography. You have located the place for us, we would never have found it without you.
Is that referring to how this ideology thrives where English is spoken or can be translated and then spread and taught only in areas where young people can easily congregate and connect? Separate from in the US where this is spread online. Additionally? this can only thrive in first world or western world areas for many reason, ease or difficulty of daily life and survival being one.
I am blown away. Utterly Blown away. Please Maia write that article. I need my Jewish friends to read it. Please Stella can you take this post out of the paywall?? I need to share it with my Jewish and Israeli friends. The analysis here is so profound. So needed for the Jewish community. Kol Hakavod Maia.
The article will hopefully be posted here soon (if it hasn’t already been linked). It’s a 20 page paper written last year when I had desisted but not detransitioned/stopped living as a man.
It should be an easy & comprehensive read. I’ll probably add something soon to it, because I’ve learned a lot about the kabbalistic perspective on these matters since
Please find the article added in the notes above!
OK, redundant from my comment on the main part of the episode, but oh my goodness, Maia, you are so absolutely brilliant. Everything you said here is so illuminating. And I 100% echo what you say about this very podcast and how important it has been to so many in understanding this mass psychogenic illness, medical scandal, or whatever various true things we can call it.
Thank you so much for your comment!
Maia's comments on religion were interesting for me. I was raised atheist and without religion. My mother and sister have both struggled mightily with mental health and spent most of their lives medicated, and I think social media has been horrible for my family of origin and that I'm the only one with an awareness of how it has devastated our family. I've seen my family go from Rational Empiricists to Woke fundamentalists and that it's exacerbated OCD tendencies in my family. The hard thing is that growing up I got a lot of messages that it was impossible to live a healthy, good life as an atheist and that motivated me to show that it could be done, but I look at what happened to the rest of my family and it's caused me to re-evaluate needs people have for religion in their life and wonder if people were right about atheism being challenging for mental health.
I have had a surprisingly successful marriage with a practicing Catholic. Our religious differences have been hard to navigate and nearly destroyed our marriage at times but right now we are in a state of deep appreciation for each other's differences. One thing we argued about was whether to force the kids to be Catholics. I always believe that doing the sacraments and going to Mass should be their choice, not forced and that they should have the opportunity to explore other belief systems. My husband felt that if it wasn't forced they wouldn't do it.
This extremism and my way or the highway route he and my in-laws took to religion nearly destroyed our marriage, and to his credit my husband realized this and stepped back to make amends. He didn't insist on bringing the kids to Mass with him or them having Communion. And to his surprise my tween has started to ask to go to Mass with him. She's also started to struggle with a lot of fears about what will happen when she dies and whether or not she will die in her sleep which, after listening to this podcast, I feel are appropriate for her age (I never experienced this and have come to the conclusion that I am unnaturally comfortable with the fact that one day I will die). My husband has started using prayer to help her cope with this and she has started to ask to pray with him and is developing a sense of spirituality and we are looking into getting her in classes for her First Communion, a bit late, but this is motivated by her and something she wants for her and not something we are forcing her into. I'm shocked that I am at a point where I am now so terrified of the prospect of my autistic children going down the gender ideology rabbit hole that I'm encouraging them to embrace their father's Catholic faith and cheerleading it even though I have no intention of converting myself. My husband is shocked that the kids are initiating this and it is so meaningful to him that this is driven by them and not something he is imposing on them.
Basically I've come to the conclusion that extremism is a problem in all beliefs systems, but if my kids become devout Catholics they aren't going to cut off body parts so I'll take the risk of them becoming devout Catholics. With extremism such a problem in our society though, I think the thing that we are really trying to impress on my kids is that religion is something that they do because it helps them cope with how hard life is, and that different people find different ways to cope with how hard life is, and that Catholicism may be right for you, but Judaism or Islam or some secular philosophy may be right for someone else. But then there are the risks that some beliefs systems are healthier than others and they can also become cultish, and that you can practice Catholicism in a way that is healthy and respectful of others or do it in a way that is destructive and so on with any belief system.
I'll say that gender ideology has a way of making you examine everything you thought you knew in a new light and leads you to the strangest places. My husband sees that my concerns and criticisms about organized religion are valid but I also see the benefits that having a religious belief system brings and we're trying to navigate a path where they get the benefits of religion while minimizing the bad and hope it's enough to. And it has also struck me that conservatives actually have good reasons for their approach to life but terrible arguments beyond "this is the way things are done." I think it's so intuitive to them that they can't articulate it and gender ideology is showing us painfully what happens when we devalue rituals and family and religion and has given me better arguments for conservative positions (and I'm liberal). Meanwhile I think liberals have valid critiques about where humans in groups go wrong but have been throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and I think both sides need to see that the other has good points and figure out how to have the benefits of conservatism without the abuses. Because of this, I find insights like Maia's fascinating and needed as we navigate our way through a strange new world.
I’ll have a lot to consider after reading this comment
Thank you. That was very thoughtful. I am also exploring the religious side of this. I think that traditional religious frameworks can be very helpful in grounding us, particularly children. Tried and tested religious frameworks tend to be less dangerous than new cults or ideological movements, which have a tendency to burn themselves out when they destroy lives, although in some case only after causing huge harm. To me the main test for whether a belief system is dangerous is whether those who adhere to it understand that they have a faith, and that others may reasonably not share this faith, because faith is something you cannot gain by rational argument - it is something you are raised with, or sometimes choose, or sometimes a gift (as with born-again Christians). The danger comes when people take faith beliefs and demand that others agree or be branded as infidels or heretics (for saying that sex is real, for example). Most religions have become dangerous at one time or another, particularly when religion gets mixed up with political power. That is why the gender ideologues are so dangerous - because they have power over others. And they do not recognise that their beliefs are held as a matter of faith.
Maia’s insights are so important and we need to incorporate them into our quest to understand this phenomenon among the kids and the scandal being perpetrated by the professionals and society!! So eye opening in this segment. I can see Stella’s mind exploding with intrigue. 😂. I am so impressed, Maia.
Isn't that bit about the Tel Aviv mall fascinating? That micro-geography of gender identity would be comletely invisible to me if I had not talked to Maia. She is a wellspring of insight.
The micro-geography of gender identity? What do you mean by that?
The epicenter of youth culture is a mall in Tel Aviv, a very unique place on the map. Within it there are many places for many different affinity groups -- a social geography. All that talk about "navigating the world" infers a geography. You have located the place for us, we would never have found it without you.
Oh that’s fascinating!
Is that referring to how this ideology thrives where English is spoken or can be translated and then spread and taught only in areas where young people can easily congregate and connect? Separate from in the US where this is spread online. Additionally? this can only thrive in first world or western world areas for many reason, ease or difficulty of daily life and survival being one.
I am blown away. Utterly Blown away. Please Maia write that article. I need my Jewish friends to read it. Please Stella can you take this post out of the paywall?? I need to share it with my Jewish and Israeli friends. The analysis here is so profound. So needed for the Jewish community. Kol Hakavod Maia.
The article will hopefully be posted here soon (if it hasn’t already been linked). It’s a 20 page paper written last year when I had desisted but not detransitioned/stopped living as a man.
It should be an easy & comprehensive read. I’ll probably add something soon to it, because I’ve learned a lot about the kabbalistic perspective on these matters since