I think it’s an easy escape for teens, a trendy idea, but also a gateway to destructive thoughts and actions.
Like the idea of marijuana being a gateway drug. Or, in my family, a pet bunny being a gateway pet! Now we have a zoo.
I think nonbinary fits right in with how young people are being are taught that climate change will kill us all soon, overpopulation is bad and there is no solution, the west and America are evil, Capitalism is morally wrong, police, law and order are racist, etc.
Nonbinary is a way to identify OUT of the fear they have absorbed.
And it’s a way to signal that they are good. On the right side of this social revolution that must happen. Like in the 60’s but way worse. They need a cause. They need to feel that their parents are unenlightened! Because we were never teenagers, of course. 😅
I think many of the adults in positions of authority affirming kids in this are groomers and sick in their own way. Affirming THEMSELVES by leading more and more vulnerable people down this path to destruction.
A dear friend has a nine-year-old daughter on the autism spectrum who was heading down the trans-identity path. I screwed up my courage to suggest that my friend read WHEN KIDS SAY THEY'RE TRANS, and was pleased that both she and her husband read it and took it seriously. They successfully walked their daughter back, but I notice that they are still using the pronoun "they." I feel like I've given my unsolicited advice and can't say more, but in my experience with two of my kids, "they" is exactly what Sweet Caroline describes: a gateway. It leaves the gate open, and with an open gate--for anyone who is already focused on feelings of discomfort--the inevitable pull is "out," because the open gate is itself a constant reminder of those feelings. "They" also ends up, either deliberately or not, being a useful tool to ease parents into further change. My husband and I agreed to they/them for two of our teenage children (now grown and fully trans-identifying) because, as difficult as it was to adapt, it gave us a misguided feeling of safety: we believed it to be better than the alternative, and that it would preserve our close relationship with our kids. Eventually, I got good at it, and later I actually longed for "they" when the inevitable happened and these two adult children asked for cross-sex pronouns. Many parents of children and teens may feel a non-binary identity allows the child freedom, and "time to think," but I now believe non-binary identities and "they" pronouns are quite analogous to that disproven notion regarding puberty blockers. I suspect the nine-year-old I'm worried about, so well-loved by her brilliant parents, might avoid future confusion with a clearer message from them that she is a girl, therefore a "she," and that girls can express themselves (hair, clothing, interests, behavior) in infinite ways, while still being healthy, strong, girls. I just re-listened to the episode under discussion, though, and Sasha points out that for some timid girls, asking for they/them is the first thing they've used their voice for, and I don't know what to say in that situation to avoid quashing their new empowerment.
Hi Elizabeth. It’s really hard to know what to so. Your friends child is so young, only nine! And with your adult kids, I’m not sure that you and your husbands use if they/them is what lead to their desire for cross sex pronouns. At the adult stage there are far more influences than what mom and dad do. But all of this is just so messy - hope to see you later today
Yes, I don't know whether I'm right about my friend's child. They are very good parents! Maybe they're handling this the best way. As for my husband and me, I think maybe the upsetting thing is more the feeling that we gave up some of our authentic selves when we agreed to they/them, and maybe we all would have been better off (emotionally, I suppose, since it wouldn't have changed anything, I don't think) if we had been more expressive of our concerns.
What I meant is that a 9 year old can get very confused about reality if the parents are using they them. And yes. That giving up your own authenticity is one of the most destructive things that happens to families when they try to affirm against their instincts. So difficult
I hope you'll make it on Saturday and can bounce these ideas around with us. I agree very much that this is a political way to attempt oping out of a system they think is morally wrong
Wondering if what you heard on NPR was the obituary of poet Andrea Gibson - I heard it earlier today. I really wonder: how does language like "their battle with ovarian cancer"..."their wife" (in a same-sex marriage)... "their ex-girlfriends" (in same sex-relationships)..."their art" (in an art world historically dominated by men)...serve society, or serve women? What does it mean?
FYI my daughter is registered for the course at RIT "Trans Lives: PastPresentFuture." I'm not sure how to navigate that, other than to avoid bringing it up; she did say after her surgery that she did not want to discuss the topic of being transgender with me anymore.
I think it’s an easy escape for teens, a trendy idea, but also a gateway to destructive thoughts and actions.
Like the idea of marijuana being a gateway drug. Or, in my family, a pet bunny being a gateway pet! Now we have a zoo.
I think nonbinary fits right in with how young people are being are taught that climate change will kill us all soon, overpopulation is bad and there is no solution, the west and America are evil, Capitalism is morally wrong, police, law and order are racist, etc.
Nonbinary is a way to identify OUT of the fear they have absorbed.
And it’s a way to signal that they are good. On the right side of this social revolution that must happen. Like in the 60’s but way worse. They need a cause. They need to feel that their parents are unenlightened! Because we were never teenagers, of course. 😅
I think many of the adults in positions of authority affirming kids in this are groomers and sick in their own way. Affirming THEMSELVES by leading more and more vulnerable people down this path to destruction.
A dear friend has a nine-year-old daughter on the autism spectrum who was heading down the trans-identity path. I screwed up my courage to suggest that my friend read WHEN KIDS SAY THEY'RE TRANS, and was pleased that both she and her husband read it and took it seriously. They successfully walked their daughter back, but I notice that they are still using the pronoun "they." I feel like I've given my unsolicited advice and can't say more, but in my experience with two of my kids, "they" is exactly what Sweet Caroline describes: a gateway. It leaves the gate open, and with an open gate--for anyone who is already focused on feelings of discomfort--the inevitable pull is "out," because the open gate is itself a constant reminder of those feelings. "They" also ends up, either deliberately or not, being a useful tool to ease parents into further change. My husband and I agreed to they/them for two of our teenage children (now grown and fully trans-identifying) because, as difficult as it was to adapt, it gave us a misguided feeling of safety: we believed it to be better than the alternative, and that it would preserve our close relationship with our kids. Eventually, I got good at it, and later I actually longed for "they" when the inevitable happened and these two adult children asked for cross-sex pronouns. Many parents of children and teens may feel a non-binary identity allows the child freedom, and "time to think," but I now believe non-binary identities and "they" pronouns are quite analogous to that disproven notion regarding puberty blockers. I suspect the nine-year-old I'm worried about, so well-loved by her brilliant parents, might avoid future confusion with a clearer message from them that she is a girl, therefore a "she," and that girls can express themselves (hair, clothing, interests, behavior) in infinite ways, while still being healthy, strong, girls. I just re-listened to the episode under discussion, though, and Sasha points out that for some timid girls, asking for they/them is the first thing they've used their voice for, and I don't know what to say in that situation to avoid quashing their new empowerment.
Hi Elizabeth. It’s really hard to know what to so. Your friends child is so young, only nine! And with your adult kids, I’m not sure that you and your husbands use if they/them is what lead to their desire for cross sex pronouns. At the adult stage there are far more influences than what mom and dad do. But all of this is just so messy - hope to see you later today
Yes, I don't know whether I'm right about my friend's child. They are very good parents! Maybe they're handling this the best way. As for my husband and me, I think maybe the upsetting thing is more the feeling that we gave up some of our authentic selves when we agreed to they/them, and maybe we all would have been better off (emotionally, I suppose, since it wouldn't have changed anything, I don't think) if we had been more expressive of our concerns.
What I meant is that a 9 year old can get very confused about reality if the parents are using they them. And yes. That giving up your own authenticity is one of the most destructive things that happens to families when they try to affirm against their instincts. So difficult
I hope you'll make it on Saturday and can bounce these ideas around with us. I agree very much that this is a political way to attempt oping out of a system they think is morally wrong
Listening to a person being referred to as “they” gives me a headache. (I was just listening to NPR…)
Wondering if what you heard on NPR was the obituary of poet Andrea Gibson - I heard it earlier today. I really wonder: how does language like "their battle with ovarian cancer"..."their wife" (in a same-sex marriage)... "their ex-girlfriends" (in same sex-relationships)..."their art" (in an art world historically dominated by men)...serve society, or serve women? What does it mean?
Yes that’s what I was listening to (that gave me a headache).
Indeed!
FYI my daughter is registered for the course at RIT "Trans Lives: PastPresentFuture." I'm not sure how to navigate that, other than to avoid bringing it up; she did say after her surgery that she did not want to discuss the topic of being transgender with me anymore.
FYI Jamie Shupe, referenced in the episode, died by suicide in January: https://www.pghlesbian.com/2025/02/i-knew-elisa-rae-shupe-1963-2025-and-she-deserved-better/
Thanks Ann. Yes, quite a complex and disturbed person, it seems