AHHH! I can't wait to hear this! Dorky Freya India fan girl over here!
I'm so happy you got her on the pod. Since 2018 I've been trying to crack the case regarding how my GenZ daughter ended up in numerous long, costly psych hospitalizations with no neurodivergence and limited (not "none") adversity in her life. I ended up getting a good handle on the issues at play following Jonathan Haidts work, Jean Twenge, Greg Lukianoff, and many others including Meghan Daum, Sarah Haider, Gender a Wider Lens, Helen Plukrose, James Lindsay, Coleman Hughes, Free Black Thought, Erec Smith, John McWhorter, Jesse Singal, Bari Weiss, Eliza Mondegren, Abigail Schrier, Yascha Mounk, nd many more... omg I could go on and on and on because there are so many pieces to the puzzle (its not just tech, especially if you are black)...
But Freya was indeed the woman who gave me a glimple into my daughters lived experience in such a salient way it was almost too shocking to bear at first. I remember reading that first piece posted at After Babel. I curled up into a hyperventilating ball of tears before forwarding it to all my friends. There is something about how viscerally she describes what should shock most people yet has become banal to most. It was a almost a vindication for me, a message from the universe that I'm not crazy even though I couldn't put what was happening into words. I mean, not many of us can, right? The sad truth is, the vast majority of GenZ is too caught up in "the river", as I call it, to step back and report on what is happening to them and around them. Meanwhile parents are shut out like never before in history. Which is why I think a big part of Freya's strength is in supplying her readers with shocking yet al too common evidence that most of us older adults would never come across.
We as a modern society in the digital age have a long way to go, but the work you all have put in and the strides that have been made over the past couple years has restored my faith in humanity (and believe me, my faith was GONE). So, I thank you!!! And so do my younger daughters coming up at age 9 and 11. They will have a chance because of the brave (or masochistic?) people who have tirelessly spoken out. As for my 21yo? She recently admitted, after months she reluctantly read Freya's article I sent. "Yeah... I followed her, she's cool". That's all I got on the topic but its something precious to me considering where we've been. I can be patient but patience requires faith so I'm glad I got that back!
Anyway, sorry for the monologue. I haven't even listened yet but Im all excited!
This is beautiful and we will pass this comment along to Freya! Please pop back over and tell us what you thought of the episode, after you listen! We are huge Freya fans around here, too!
Wow. This was such an interesting episode! As a side note, I’m very interested in Stella’s point about the illusion of a “true self”. I think this is perhaps one of the most pervasive ideas at the center of a lot of the gender ideology as well as some of the pop-psychology/ “spiritual” sides of the internet. I’m in agreement that this idea can be harmful and very black and white. Would love to hear another more in depth conversation around that idea!
Yes ! I always thought this idea of a true self, which needs this or that to express itself fully, ridiculous. Yes, we can repress part of ourselves for many reasons but if you need to change your body or whatever else to be "who you really are"... it's so obvious it truly is the fantasy of who you want to be and not some hidden you within yourself.
I just wanted to share as I was listening I began to think that it’s possible the nostalgia for gen z is driven by the desire to connect to the older generation. To want them to understand what you’re going through or to want to live in a time where your parents can actually give you advice on how to navigate the world because they have gone through it. Gen z knows their parents didn’t grow up with that technology or have to learn how to live in this same social media world and part of wanting to be in a before Era is wanting some security in how to navigate their lives. Of course the lack of real connection drives it too like you all spoke about. But I think there’s also a large part that these young people know that their parents don’t get it and that is really destabilizing when you are young.
I completely agree with you about the whole "it's the rest of the world the problem". I was looking at accounts of people with autism - we strongly suspect one of my youngest brothers is on the spectrum - and the ones who are quite woke were basically saying "I shouldn't change one bit, other people need to "educate" themselves and change their ways".
It's stupid. We need to meet each other halfway. We can't expect for other people to adapt to us, or for society to adapt to us, while refusing to make efforts toward others.
In the same way, I expect people to be understanding of some of my difficulties but I don't ask that they bend themselves backward to cater to my self-proclaim needs.
I’m sorry to hear about your mom. As someone who has OCD and is deconstructing from this whole gender ideology, I absolutely see now how my OCD latched onto these ideas and how social media became addicting for me, just like you said. It’s a tough disorder and it makes me wonder how many other kids and adults are hooked without fully realizing it. Thanks for sharing.
AHHH! I can't wait to hear this! Dorky Freya India fan girl over here!
I'm so happy you got her on the pod. Since 2018 I've been trying to crack the case regarding how my GenZ daughter ended up in numerous long, costly psych hospitalizations with no neurodivergence and limited (not "none") adversity in her life. I ended up getting a good handle on the issues at play following Jonathan Haidts work, Jean Twenge, Greg Lukianoff, and many others including Meghan Daum, Sarah Haider, Gender a Wider Lens, Helen Plukrose, James Lindsay, Coleman Hughes, Free Black Thought, Erec Smith, John McWhorter, Jesse Singal, Bari Weiss, Eliza Mondegren, Abigail Schrier, Yascha Mounk, nd many more... omg I could go on and on and on because there are so many pieces to the puzzle (its not just tech, especially if you are black)...
But Freya was indeed the woman who gave me a glimple into my daughters lived experience in such a salient way it was almost too shocking to bear at first. I remember reading that first piece posted at After Babel. I curled up into a hyperventilating ball of tears before forwarding it to all my friends. There is something about how viscerally she describes what should shock most people yet has become banal to most. It was a almost a vindication for me, a message from the universe that I'm not crazy even though I couldn't put what was happening into words. I mean, not many of us can, right? The sad truth is, the vast majority of GenZ is too caught up in "the river", as I call it, to step back and report on what is happening to them and around them. Meanwhile parents are shut out like never before in history. Which is why I think a big part of Freya's strength is in supplying her readers with shocking yet al too common evidence that most of us older adults would never come across.
We as a modern society in the digital age have a long way to go, but the work you all have put in and the strides that have been made over the past couple years has restored my faith in humanity (and believe me, my faith was GONE). So, I thank you!!! And so do my younger daughters coming up at age 9 and 11. They will have a chance because of the brave (or masochistic?) people who have tirelessly spoken out. As for my 21yo? She recently admitted, after months she reluctantly read Freya's article I sent. "Yeah... I followed her, she's cool". That's all I got on the topic but its something precious to me considering where we've been. I can be patient but patience requires faith so I'm glad I got that back!
Anyway, sorry for the monologue. I haven't even listened yet but Im all excited!
This is beautiful and we will pass this comment along to Freya! Please pop back over and tell us what you thought of the episode, after you listen! We are huge Freya fans around here, too!
Wow. This was such an interesting episode! As a side note, I’m very interested in Stella’s point about the illusion of a “true self”. I think this is perhaps one of the most pervasive ideas at the center of a lot of the gender ideology as well as some of the pop-psychology/ “spiritual” sides of the internet. I’m in agreement that this idea can be harmful and very black and white. Would love to hear another more in depth conversation around that idea!
Yes ! I always thought this idea of a true self, which needs this or that to express itself fully, ridiculous. Yes, we can repress part of ourselves for many reasons but if you need to change your body or whatever else to be "who you really are"... it's so obvious it truly is the fantasy of who you want to be and not some hidden you within yourself.
Great episode!
I just wanted to share as I was listening I began to think that it’s possible the nostalgia for gen z is driven by the desire to connect to the older generation. To want them to understand what you’re going through or to want to live in a time where your parents can actually give you advice on how to navigate the world because they have gone through it. Gen z knows their parents didn’t grow up with that technology or have to learn how to live in this same social media world and part of wanting to be in a before Era is wanting some security in how to navigate their lives. Of course the lack of real connection drives it too like you all spoke about. But I think there’s also a large part that these young people know that their parents don’t get it and that is really destabilizing when you are young.
I havent even listened yet but 100%! inciteful comment
The printing press had historical effects. We have printing presses in our pockets now.
This was a great episode! I look forward to a new episodes each week.
I completely agree with you about the whole "it's the rest of the world the problem". I was looking at accounts of people with autism - we strongly suspect one of my youngest brothers is on the spectrum - and the ones who are quite woke were basically saying "I shouldn't change one bit, other people need to "educate" themselves and change their ways".
It's stupid. We need to meet each other halfway. We can't expect for other people to adapt to us, or for society to adapt to us, while refusing to make efforts toward others.
In the same way, I expect people to be understanding of some of my difficulties but I don't ask that they bend themselves backward to cater to my self-proclaim needs.
I’m sorry to hear about your mom. As someone who has OCD and is deconstructing from this whole gender ideology, I absolutely see now how my OCD latched onto these ideas and how social media became addicting for me, just like you said. It’s a tough disorder and it makes me wonder how many other kids and adults are hooked without fully realizing it. Thanks for sharing.